The Catholic Church and the twin discount
Whenever we are about to spend a lot of money on something I always ask for the twin discount. “We have twins. Do we get a discount?” I say. This has worked very well at places like Baby Depot and Babies-R-Us (We bought four infant/toddler car seats a couple of weeks ago and saved almost $50 off the $480 the seats were gonna run us). It does not work so well at places like Starbucks. (“I’ll have a Venti Extra-hot, raspberry, White Chocolate mocha and a crumble coffee cake please. $5.75? Do you offer a twins discount?” The answer is always no.)
Do you want to know where else they don’t offer a twin discount? The Catholic church. I know, I know. You’re obviously as surprised as I was. You see, we’ve been trying to get the babies baptized for a while. When we called up the local church that we had been attending prior to the babies being born, we were told the following:
In order to baptize our children and save their souls from eternal damnation, we would have to attend church 8 consecutive weeks before the priest would even meet with us. We would then have to attend one evening class but children are not allowed to attend that class. Oh, and the way we tell if you’ve attended 8 consecutive weeks is by the weekly offering. Uh-huh. You heard me. You have to pay up if you want credit for your child’s salvation.
Two things made me angry about this whole scenario. First, obviously the person on the other end of the phone that I spoke to did not have a rat’s clue to what it was like to parent infant twins. We attended church fairly regularly prior to the twins being born but with breastfeeding running our lives, getting out of the house for mass each Sunday was next to impossible. Yet I went on my own. Determined to save my children’s soul, I trekked off each week to mass while Andrea wrestled with the twins. Each week, I’d sit alone in the bleachers of the local high school gymnasium (the church is building it’s facility nearby) and try not to think about how the high school won it’s two Cross Country League Championships and it’s two Track & Field League Championships while simultaneously reciting the profession of faith.
The second issue I had was the way they were making me pay each week as a way of taking roll. One week, I gave a buck. One measly dollar. I wanted to write something nasty on it but didn’t feel like incurring the wrath of God so I left satisfied my one dollar was symbolic of a silent protest. I’m sure no one but the church receptionist noticed. Sadly, I’ll forever be known as the cheap guy – not the brave man who stood up to the mighty Catholic church.
Finally, this church wanted each of the godparents (we have four as the twins will not share godparents) to attend a class at their respective churches (they don’t live near us) and then get a letter signed by the priest of their church stating they attend mass regularly. I’m pretty sure she also wanted an affadavit signed by all parties that made the Godparents promise to send their first-born son into the priesthood. This is when I started realizing why fewer and fewer people are joining the Catholic church. It’s an exclusive club and you’ve gotta pay to get in.
Luckily, we found out about a rebel church in the town next to us that had no such restrictions. All we had to do is show up to a one-hour class on a Saturday (children welcome) and pick a date. We went today and it was crowded. We listened to an elderly Filipino man lecture many of us in the room about how it would be nice if we actually started attending church once we got our children baptized. He went on and on (something about Luke, Matthew, Paul, John and perhaps Yoko but it was hard to hear so I could be wrong) until we finally got the info we needed. Just fill out the form, pick a date and show up with a candle, a white outfit and your camera. Oh, and you have to pay $70, of course. Of course. Per child? Of course.
*Sigh* grumble, grumble, grumble.
I had to ask… “We have twins. Do we get a twin discount?”
No. No we do not. But $140 is a small price to pay for reservations to heaven. Right?
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I’m a little dismayed that your choices were so uncompromising. Taking some classes so you understand the significance of what you’re doing makes sense to me. Paying for them utterly, utterly does not. A free-will donation box and the entry, yes. Required to pay – absolutely not. You thought a dollar was cheap? I’d have been dropping a penny in the tray. I thought the Catholic church was supposed to have given up the practice of selling indulgences??
Protestants don’t believe that going to church buys you a seat in heaven, and most don’t believe that baptism does, either. Plus, baptisms are free. It’s the same God. Not giving any advice, I’m just sayin’…
Comment by Mary — March 19, 2006 @ 4:27 am
Holy cow…when did the church become so mercenary? I know when I first got married they made me register and take a class, but there was not attendance requirement or fee. It’s that type of stuff that made me go non-denominational the second time around.
I was born and raised Catholic, but I’m convinced that they’re resemblance to the mafia is more than a little coincidental…
Comment by CroutonBoy — March 19, 2006 @ 7:26 am
Hey things could be worse… us Mormon folk pay 10% of our income to the church (although it’s not a requirement). $140? That’s nothing! Haha!
Comment by mormondaddy — March 19, 2006 @ 7:33 am
Eek.
I respect your decision to believe in your faith, and make sure that your children are taken care of in the same faith.
But holy crap! I personally would have a challenge believing in a faith that requires one to pay for eternal salvation.
Then again, I’m pretty much a heathen.
Comment by Andie D. — March 19, 2006 @ 8:37 am
Just a word of advice. Later, if you decide to send them to Catholic school, don’t forget to use your church issued envelopes for offetory if you want the Catholic tuition rates. Forget to do that a few lousy times and they try to charge you non-Catholic tuition rates and it’s not pretty. Not pretty at all. I, um, mean, so I’ve heard…
Comment by Busy Mom — March 19, 2006 @ 11:24 am
Wow. I’m really surprised at the mandatory “donations.” My husband grew up Catholic–altar boy, Catholic schools, yada,yada–but turned his back on the faith. Not God–just the Catholic religion. We have been attending the Methodist church near our house for a year now, with the expception of missing 3 consecutive months when the babies were born. We had ours baptized last month, free of charge. We did have to meet with the preacher for about 10 minutes the week before the baptism. My husband asked if there was a fee to pay, and I laughed. I really didn’t know you had to pay in a Catholic church. We do, however, make sizable offerings every month.
Comment by Amy — March 19, 2006 @ 12:15 pm
At last! All the grandmothers are breathing a sigh of relief. It is a beautiful ritual, an affirmation and ensures the continuation of our faith.
As for your experience with your parish church, it should be put in context. Remember that priests do not hold other jobs and each parish has to be self-supporting. A parish trying to build a church (as in the case of your parish) has to raise its own capital.
My parish asks that we donate one hour’s wages a week. This money provides catechism classes and outreach to the homebound and the terminally ill as well as helping those in need with food, rent, gas or bus tickets. All of my donations (fees) ARE tax deductabe.
As for the rebel church, they have been around a longer that your parish. THEY have a church and perhaps have been the recipients of trusts and wills.
Lastly, it is my understanding that while ministers of other faiths do not “charge” the etiquette is to give them an honoraruim.
Glad you are keeping the faith.
Comment by Grandmother — March 19, 2006 @ 1:36 pm
I’m just trying to find a church that I like around here. I’m nervous about the baptism thing because of the classes and fees. I was baptized and also confirmed but no longer attend church (that whole “Mom made me go so much as a teenager that I rebelled for the next decade). Maybe I should take them to my Gramma’s church in Iowa. It won’t be free but I’ll get the member price and the 6 hour drive will be scenic. Ha! My husband was raised a JW and doesn’t have a religion now so I don’t know what we’ll do if we both have to take a class. Yipes! Good luck guys!
Comment by Trish — March 19, 2006 @ 5:12 pm
You had to pay money to have them baptised? Lutherans do it for free for members. Plus we have coffee. And jello.
I’m just sayin’…
Comment by Moxie — March 19, 2006 @ 8:00 pm
That’s awful! It was my understanding that if you are part of a congregation you’re not usually charged for baptism/confirmation/marriage ceremonies. I have to start this process myself soon, and even though I don’t consider myself a member anymore (so I’m fine with paying a fee) it’s still the church I grew up in. My parents attend and I think we would be offended all around if I was asked to shell out money for a certain number of weeks instead of paying an honorarium fee. It kind of starts off what should be a beautiful ceremony with bad feelings, doesn’t it?
Comment by the weirdgirl — March 19, 2006 @ 9:41 pm
Since I am a born and raised Protestant, I’ve never run into this. We don’t have baptisms for babies, we have dedications, and there is no charge and no attendance requirement, either (though we are a smaller church and most people who do get their children dedicated do attend semi-regularly). A “honorarium” would be considered unnecessary (and probably mildly offensive) for an event like a dedication. We do tithe regularly, but it is never “forced” out of us (and is tax-deductible). There is a set fee for weddings, but that is to cover the use of the building. There is no charge for baptism, and there is about a 10 minute meeting before the service to go over the meaning of baptism.
Obviously, my church is missing out on a huge financial opportunity by giving away these services for free! I should bring this up at the next membership meeting… That being said, I’m sorry that you’ve had to go through so many hoops just to do this.
Comment by Deanna — March 20, 2006 @ 2:06 am
Ha! Gotta love the Catholic church! Our current one won’t let Zach make his first communion with the rest of the 2nd graders because he didn’t have religion classes at this church during 1st grade. Hello, we just moved here in August? Maybe I should have offered them more money. hehe
Comment by Katie — March 20, 2006 @ 6:30 am
First time commenting b/c this is ridiculous. Our church never asked for a donation. In fact, when we needed private Baptism due to our godparents’ schedules, we weren’t asked to contribute anything. We decided on our own to donate, and how much. For the Church to require you to pay is craptacular. And they wonder why people are leaving the Church?! By the way, love reading your site, still amazed that you guys can handle two at once- way to go!
Comment by Ebane — March 20, 2006 @ 10:46 am
We won’t baptize the kids because we want to be sure to see them in the afterlife . . . and I’m pretty sure Husband and I won’t be speding it in Heaven.
Comment by MIM — March 20, 2006 @ 11:47 am
Um yeah, I’m with MIM. Actually, we are not religious at all. I think that it is horrible that you have to pay for something like that. Everything these days is about money. So sad.
Comment by Melissa — March 20, 2006 @ 11:57 am
Okay, first with a confession. I’m a lifelong protestant, and the church I attend practices believer’s baptism – that is, the candidate for baptism must be mature enough to make an informed faith decision for themselves before they may be baptized. A series of six classes is required for the candidate. I would also describe myself as a Christian and a parent with a deep love for the church.
With the confession out of the way, I have to ask: Would you go to a restaurant, enjoy a nice lunch, and then say to your waiter, “I don’t think I should have to pay”? Do you go to the grocery store and say to the clerk, “Hey, I’ve only got a few items. Why don’t you just charge them to the
guy behind me?” I think it’s the same thing if you expect the church to be there to baptize your children, but you’re not willing to support the church with your time or your money. You are, quite literally, expecting somebody else to pay your way. So if the issue here is simply, “I don’t
want to have to give the church any of my money,” I would have to say, “Grow up! Be a Man, for cryin’ out loud. You sound like a whiny adolescent…”
But that’s not entirely what I heard. What I read into your story is something that I have heard from several Catholic and formerly Catholic friends. That is: there is a tremendous priest shortage; suburban sprawl means new parishes with one dreadfully overburdened priest trying to
serve 2,000 to 4,000 families, while offering six to eight masses on a weekend. There is no hope that a priest or deacon is going to know your name, know your family, know your situation. Just about the only way they could have any idea if you were even there on a given weekend is if you
made a trackable donation. I think the question becomes: is this the kind of church environment I want for my family? If not, then climb down out of the bleachers and find a church where you be known by name and missed when you are not there.
Beyond that, you have two excellent points. Expecting anybody with two small kids to make it to worship eight consecutive weeks before a priest will even meet with them is just ludicrous. Kids get sick. Parents get sick. Stuff happens (and I don’t mean just staying home to watch
March Madness). And, having a mandatory meeting for parents of small children without providing child care is just insensitive. In both of these cases, I think your church is sending you a clear message about how much it really cares about families and children. Not all churches are like this.
Something else:. I’m hoping that you are seeking baptism for JT and Bri because your faith is important to you, and because you earnestly desire to raise them as Christians. Real Christians – not Christians in name only. If that’s not the commitment you’re seeking to make, then I urge
you to reconsider your actions. If you’re seeking baptism because you’re trying to please the grandparents, or purchase eternal life insurance for your kids, or just because “you think it’s the thing to do” then please think carefully about what attitude this will end up communicating to your children, and what you want the legacy of faith that you are offering to twins to be.
Sorry for the long-winded comment. Thanks for your blog. You’re clearly a dad who loves his children very much, and that’s inspiring to see.
Comment by Luckydad — March 20, 2006 @ 12:57 pm
you are a modern day martin luther, my man.
Comment by dutch — March 20, 2006 @ 2:31 pm
I didn’t read all your comments because I’m sure you got a bunch from people telling you to convert. My husband’s family in NOT Catholic and are big on pointing out all the “issues” (they have) with the Catholic Church, so reading those comments would’ve just pissed me off. (My comment to that: don’t become a Catholic, it solves your problem.)
My 2cents: It’s the church you’re attending (perhaps because they are trying to build a facility they feel the need to pump you for cash?) Our experience is a bit more like the second place you found. But we moved neighborhoods recently and have found that it seems to have a lot to do with the priest currently in charge. Some places frown on you attending a church that isn’t “yours” etc…others are just happy to see you. So find a church that seems to fit your family & go with that. No place is going to be perfect, (Insert infallible Pope joke here). Hopefully, you can find a church w/a young (family oriented) congregation; they’ll be more in tune to your needs & very supportive. Good luck & congrats on your babies impending baptism!
Comment by mama speak — March 20, 2006 @ 2:37 pm
There are family-friendly Catholic churches out there, and I hope the laid-back one near you is one of them.
Also, I respectfully disagree with the commenter who says you shouldn`t baptize kids just to please family members — if you`re not doing something because it`s important and meaningful to you personally, then doing it because it`s important and meaningful to the people you love most in the world is the next best reason — in my humble opinion, anyway.
Comment by L. — March 20, 2006 @ 9:18 pm
So sad that people get treated so poorly by our Catholic Church. The mistreatment however is not officially the Church but very poor priests. Unfortunately the official Church is not getting such priests to correct their ways.
I point out what Jesus said: “I give you a new commandment: love one another. As I have loved you, so you also should love one another. This is how all will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
If parish priests payed attention to that commandment they would not set such poor rules.
- – Fr. Jerry
Comment by jw — March 20, 2006 @ 10:39 pm
We had to go to church for eight weeks before the babies could be baptized & we were fine with that. It was tough, because at the time I was still breastfeeding & while they could have a bottle with breastmilk & I not pull out offending boobies in church, I as milk producer would have to go many hours without relief. And we were required to attend some night classes too. The preacher (we’re Lutheran) tried to be understanding when we explained that we couldn’t come to every night class saying “I remember how it was when my son who is now 2 was that young.”
But people with one kid have no idea how much harder it is with two. It’s not twice as hard; it’s exponentially harder. And any church that didn’t allow kids to come to the baptism classes is being unreasonable.
We really really have tried since the baptism to go to church regularly too. But it’s very difficult with twins and the husband being gone at least every other weekend for Air Force Reserve duty. And I hate the feeling of making excuses, and the feeling of being a loser who only went to church to get her kids baptized and now slacks off.
Somewhere in the Bible is says something like “wherever two or more are gathered in my name is a church”. I believe, as a cross between Lutheran and heathen/pagan that it doesn’t matter what building you go to as long as you believe in certain things (like morals & making the world a better place). You can have a good relationship with spirituality if you don’t go to a special building that requires you to pay for the privledge. That’s what Martin Luther was all up in arms about, anyway. (in some ways).
I totally understand your frustrations.
Comment by Kim Wells — March 21, 2006 @ 10:59 am
try the church of england baptism is free.
Comment by smiffykins — March 26, 2006 @ 11:31 am
Did you call the office of your Bishop and tell them about the collection thing because that doesn’t sound right and your parish should have the records of your weekly donations and your membership. The reason the church requires proof of attendance and classes is because too many people have children Baptised only as a family tradition and not because they want to raise their children as real Catholics. If you are a registered member of your parish and are seen every Sunday and at church events then this should not be a problem. This also applies to First Communion, why should a child receive a Sacrament if they have had no formal training in the Faith and only attend Mass on the Holidays.
As for the “fees” the church buildings are not free and the utilities, learning materials, etc are not donated, many of the people that work at the church also have to be paid. Most parishes publish the yearly budget so you can easily see why you are asked to pick up some of the cost.
The point is that the Church is not trying to be difficult but all to often people want to ease their conscience by requesting the Sacraments for children that will never see the inside of a church until someone dies or gets married.
I’m not saying this applies to you and your family but it is sadly one reason for the requirements.
Comment by dover — March 26, 2006 @ 1:50 pm
This post is perfect!! My cousin Meredith (Better Butter) sent me your way and I’m glad she did. I grew up Catholic and have my own issues I won’t go into here. I was lucky enough to get my girls baptized without any classes but we did have to tip the preist;-)
Comment by MommaK — March 30, 2006 @ 10:44 am
[...] The Catholic Church and the Twins Discount [...]
Pingback by Petroville » Blog Archive » A Perfect Post ~ March — March 31, 2006 @ 3:05 am
Thank God I’m Methodist.
We get to answer some questions like “Will you proclaim your belief in Jesus as the Saviour” and some other stuff, get dunked in the water (or even sprinkled, if that’s what we want), and best of all IT IS FREE! (I have twins too, y’know, so I’m all about freebies)
Your post made me laugh…congrats on your Perfect Post award!
Comment by aka_monty — March 31, 2006 @ 7:24 am
lol, I share the same views…
Comment by mongakim — March 31, 2006 @ 8:10 am
I grew up with parents that hung out with great priests like Fr. Jerry up there, so I find the new direction the church is taking to be very disturbing.
Which is why we attend OTHER churches now.
We’re interfaith, and we definitely need some flexibility and understanding from our religious leaders.
Comment by Raehan — March 31, 2006 @ 9:24 am
Wonderful post. Very well-written. Congrats on your Perfect Post Award!
Comment by Lucinda — March 31, 2006 @ 9:55 am
Awesomely perfect!!
I will never, ever understand the Catholic church and I don’t even try to anymore. Some parishes are stricter on the baptism requirements than others, and I never understood THAT either. Shouldn’t it be a standard thing?
Glad you found a more relaxed parish for the baptism of your little kiddoes!!
Comment by nat — March 31, 2006 @ 10:46 am
Come on to “the dark side”…the baptists! we have baby dedications, the’re FREE And YOU GET A FANCY DINNER!!!
Comment by Sarcastic Journalist — March 31, 2006 @ 2:27 pm
I bet if you had bothered to make an appointment to talk to the priest, and explained your situation, they would have been willing to work with you.
Comment by Elenore — March 31, 2006 @ 7:21 pm
What a drama!
Comment by michelle_twinmum — April 1, 2006 @ 2:44 am
One of my son’s was baptized in the Catholic church. I hadn’t gone to church in many years, didn’t start then, and didn’t take a dang class. I was in Texas at the time. Great post. I’m here via MommaK.
Comment by colleen — April 1, 2006 @ 8:29 am
Great post. I grew up Catholic and totally related to the legalism. My friend has and older boy and then two twin boys about 18 months younger. They went to church “religeously” since the day they were married and never missed a tithe until her husband lost his job after the twins were born. When he got another job, they started tithing again. When they went to put their twins in Catholic school they were told they no because they missed titheing for six months. Instead of asking WWJD, kinda makes you want to ask WTF? Excuse me now while I go say some Hail Mary’s.
Comment by Antique Mommy — April 1, 2006 @ 12:50 pm
I can totally relate to this post. I was confirmed in the Catholic church – my husband, I think, was baptized Methodist but other than weddings and our oldest’s baptism, hasn’t stepped foot in a church. The priest who was serving our church at the time of our marriage ran things just like you were describing. I wasn’t even asked if I went to church regularly; I was asked if I turned in a money envelope every week. When I said no, because I was working weekends and couldn’t get to mass, I was told that they may not be able to marry us. That and a couple of other things that happened led us to just go to an historical site and get married by a JP.
When our oldest was born, the new priest was completely the opposite. That man is so friendly, and just great. Had he been there before I turned my back, I still might be there.
Comment by Lisa — April 1, 2006 @ 2:59 pm
I guess that I have been fortunate to belong only to the churches that I have…since we have not experienced any of these things. In fact, when we ‘oopsie’ had a fourth baby a little close to the third, our priest said that we did not have to go to the ‘required’ baptism class since we had just done it a year earlier.
I think the class was very helpful and informative, but your experience with that original church is truly just frightening. ick. Glad the other church turned out.
Here via Petroville!
Comment by angela marie — April 2, 2006 @ 8:11 am
Hi there — I found you via Blogfathers, and I’m a parent of twins too.
I also work for a Catholic church, and part of my job is children’s sacramental preparation. I’m weighing in to say that a church should NEVER, NEVER!! charge for celebration of a Sacrament. It sounds like you’ve gotten your kids baptized already, but you NEED to communicate this problem to the bishop of your diocese. They may *suggest* a donation or a stipend to the priest, but they can’t require a payment. They *can* require membership in the parish, at least in some nominal way — the idea is to ensure that children aren’t baptized and then raised without any faith education.
I have some… strong opinions about this kind of thing, and I’ll keep the rest of them to myself. HTH.
Comment by christie — April 2, 2006 @ 1:51 pm
Oh dear, this is just one of the reasons my (now 3.5yr old) twins and their big sister were never baptised. And if it makes you feel any better, one of my friends had similar issues with the christening of her three kids through an Anglican church here – although they did let my husband and I qualify as godparents without doing a special course!!
Good luck with your babies – I remember The Mask for my twin boy baby, but he’s grown out of all that now.
Comment by The Bec Half of Glamorouse — April 4, 2006 @ 8:03 pm
I am very sorry for what you’ve experienced. I grew up baptist but am now Catholic. It is not like that here in Texas. We don’t have those kind of rules in our parish. In fact I help teach the baptismal class that is one Sunday evening a month for a couple of hours so Moms don’t have to suffer nor babies. Moms bring their babies along sometimes and we can definitely arrange babysitting if necessary. We do want parents to be active in the parish, meaning we want them to come to church as much as possible. Jesus certainly deserves our devotion, I mean he did die on the cross for us. As for the money, we, out of appreciation for the ministry that has been done for us do give whatever we feel led by God to give. I guarantee you expect to get paid for whatever job you do. What if your boss said one day, “Well we don’t feel like we should have to pay you, you should do what you do out of the goodness of your heart.” God gave priests and preachers a job to do. It’s really not that we are paying the church, priest or preacher, but we are providing a way for whatever church we attend to minister to God’s people in various ways. Every denomination has bad preachers/priests and churches. Do not for once think that the whole church is to blame. Believe me I have attended several denominatinal churches and have found something unGodly about each. Remember Jesus created the Christian Church but he did not create the sin that happens to be in people. Please talk to the Priest and tell him your concerns and just try out another Catholic Parish.
Comment by Kanderle — April 20, 2006 @ 8:52 am
[...] I have found my favorite twins blog, and it’s by a dad. http://childsplayx2.com He’s pretty funny and boy does he deserve father of a the year for how much he does to help. Although I guess with twins you don’t have much choice but to help. Anyway, it’s a neat site and I think the guy rocks. Here is a funny gem I read this morning from the archives: http://childsplayx2.com/2006/03/the-catholic-church-and-the-twin-discount.html And an example of why he rules: This weekend our babies were sick. In the Childsplayx2 household, since I don’t have boobs and don’t have my nipples yanked and bitten on a daily basis, I have night-time duty. If the babies get up, Daddy gets up. This has gotten easier and easier as they are just about sleeping through the night. Except when they’re sick. This weekend, both had coughs and were incredibly congested. It was a rough couple of nights. Early Sunday I am awakened by both babies crying. I go to JT first hoping to calm him down since he is usually the easier of the two to get back to sleep. I have no such luck so I go to Bri hoping for a miracle. It doesn’t happen. They both want to be comforted and I can tell both are still tired. I scoop both of them up and carry them to our chaise lounge and pull a blanket over us. Bri gets tucked into my left arm, facing out. JT lies on my belly and rests his head on my chest. It’s still fairly dark out and we lie there in the warmth of the blanket. Before long, both are sleeping in our early morning cuddle. I glance down at their angelic faces and I am struck by how fortunate I am. For so long I wanted a little one to share my life with – and now I have two. Two little ones who love being held by their daddy, feeling safe, secure and a little bit tired. Yes, they may be a lot of work and yes, it would be easier with one. But I wouldn’t have it any other way. This entry was posted on Friday, June 30th, 2006 at 4:59 pm and is filed under Pregnancy. [...]
Pingback by The Joys of Twins » Blog Archive » twin blogs — July 10, 2006 @ 6:13 pm
Mother of two-and-a-half year old twin daughters. Catholic. Was google-ing ways to help us get to Mass on Sunday with one adult and two toddlers. Glad I ran across you. You are now in my favorites!
Comment by Alicia — July 6, 2008 @ 10:20 am